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Re: Internet of People: next steps

21 Oct 2017 10:19

Dimitri, I agree with your PoV. Am asking around in emails ànd threads who would be pulling this topic and am happy to help.
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Re: Internet of People: next steps

21 Oct 2017 11:01

The designated CC member in charge of pushing DiEM25's tech pillar has not changed, it's still Renata. The only thing that changed is that it now seems (from what I gather) Aral won't be the head of DiEM25's expert committee, or head only part of it, because we need a group that can evaluate members' proposals and Aral wants to design a general policy document with his contacts. I'm sure we'll solve the issue. Nothing has changed for DSCs and members, they can still form workgroups and prepare policy proposals, which the experts will attempt to collate into a sensible policy. A questionnaire should be available soon.

Dimitris, rather than assuming others aren't working and complaining about their perceived wrongdoing, how'bout contributing some work yourself? Form a group, send in policy proposals, be constructive.

Re: Internet of People: next steps

21 Oct 2017 11:19

Judith, as I have already properly communicated to entire CC some months before, effectiveness is not working for diem. I proposed certain actions but did not receive any response.
Also I have done the same with Greek unofficial PNC. No one took into account.
You personally have argued that CC don't have enough time to run important things.

Please find a solution on this, if you are not accepting my proposals.

If your previous statement agrees that I take responsibility to run the IoP implementation instead of CC please announce properly through all official channels.

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Re: Internet of People: next steps

21 Oct 2017 12:41

Guys & gals Allgood, no fights! Judith I would like to help one way or another and would have proposals is there an email thread (think we already emailed) or group chat on this? We could involve Dimitri and make this constructive! :-)
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Re: Internet of People: next steps

24 Oct 2017 09:38

Hi DimitrisK,

What is wrong with you opening one or more discussions Topics in this very section of the forum?

Like that, everyone of us can know that this discussion is happening, especially for people who will join us. By everyone I mean, all members of DiEM25, including all members belonging to the CC, the PNCs, the DSCs, the AP, the VC (any missing acronym? ;) ) and most importantly the ISOLATED members like me. Ideas create new ideas. We need all our brains to work in parallel.

So please forget about creating any group that would be in a closed discussion either through a mailing list (a disastrous tool for multiple topics and sub-topics) or any trending proprietary or FOSS platform which require any sort of login and with our own words stored on some servers somewhere (Loomio, Slack, Mattermost, Facebook, etc.). Then we need to keep a list here or I don't know where, of the entire list of these sub-groups of DiEM25 members working on something somewhere.

I know this forum is not ideal for many interactions, but is quite ok for developing ideas, proposals, policies on specific topic. I like many would just wish we can "thumb up" a post we agree with. People need to stick to the topic and open new ones when needed and stay brief and let time and space for others to contribute. If threads in this forum stay unanswered by other members, it might mean that these topics are not ripe yet. You can see that any topic can be picked up at any time, after months, by anyone and the conversation suddenly starts. I think it is a good place for that.

Sending proposals to the CC and PNCs (to be replaced by properly elected NCs) is definitely the worst thing to do. These bodies are not designed to store all proposals coming from all members. It is not a question of not accepting your proposals. No one else can see these proposals and the CC and PNCs have no place and time to do anything with these proposals. They don't even have time to reply apparently. They have other tasks to do in the meantime.

We need to do the work among ourselves, in the open space.
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Re: Internet of People: next steps

24 Oct 2017 22:10


if I understand the jest of your post correctly, as well as Judith's, the need is for someone 'to pull the cart' ss to speak. I suggested forming a trans-national theme-based [=7th pillar agenda] DSC to have a structure for the techies to have a place to address their dilemma's and interface with the broader DiEM25 community (and poyentially outside groups on parallel paths) to engage the broader support and democratic decision-making. Such DSC can act as a kind of steering committee for the developers, while not being a closed/seperayed group, but instead engage the broader movement by reporting , creating voting rounds, etc.. The DSC model also allows the members to share tasks so no single person would have to assume all responsibilities and/or get overloaded with yasls/work.
To make it more practicle and create somebactions from what we seem to agree on here already I'd like to ask all contributors to this discussion, if they are available to jointly start the '7th pillar DSC' ? If sufficient people say yes we can involve Renate/Aral and setup a first meetingnvia e.g. zoom and initiate/agree on process to be be followed, incl. criteria for voting on topics that require a broader base of support.
Anyone ?
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Re: Internet of People: next steps

24 Oct 2017 22:13

I am in asking around with others to arrange for what you just described. We could discuss on matter most
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Re: Internet of People: next steps

30 Oct 2017 13:18

JudithMeyer wrote:
Dear Aral,

The CC will discuss this new development in its next teleconference.

Off the cuff, there is a concern about maintaining our internal democracy in this setting. DiEM25's policy must reflect its members' wishes. Given the complexity of the topic and the many policy decisions to be taken in this regard, it is not enough to have a yes/no vote on adopting a paper proposed by an outside expert committee. We will probably use your paper as one of the inputs, along with collecting inputs from each DSC or member group that wants to make proposals, and go through the same iterative collective editing process as for all whitepapers.

Best wishes,


Hey Judith,

It makes sense that DiEM goes through its own internal process and adopts policies that reflect the wishes of its members. Having the policies we craft in what is currently called the “Internet of People” project can then, as you say, be a resource that DiEM – or any other progressive political movement or party – can choose to use or not depending on the will of its members. As such, I’ll clear my materials from the board to provide you with a clean slate with which to start at DiEM. Also, we can decide whether or not we wish to be associated with the policies developed at DiEM once we’ve seen them. At this point, of course, not knowing what those policies are going to be or what core tenets they will be based on, I cannot be associated with them. Best of luck.
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Re: Internet of People: next steps

30 Oct 2017 19:52

Nathy wrote:
stored on some servers somewhere (Loomio, Slack, Mattermost, Facebook, etc.).

There is one and a half bugs out of 4 in this statement… guess which :)